ماذا ترى فى تصرف القمص متياس وهبة بدعوته للقنصل للحضور للكنيسة وخروجه بذلك عن رغبة الشعب القبطى، وإستدعائه للبوليس بحجة حماية القنصل      لترسل تعليقك

التعليقات

جميع الرسائل التى تصلنا تُنشر بحسب تاريخ وصولها، تم حذف عنوان البريد الإليكترونى للراسل حفظا للخصوصية، جميع الرسائل تُنشر حسب نص ورودها، نرجوا من جميع الأطراف الإلتزام بأصول الحوار
المحرر

N. Gerges <ngerges@agwt.com.au>
Sent : Friday, May 5, 2006 1:37 PM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | Inbox


كان مفروض ان كل الشعب يخرج من الكنيسه--- ويترك هذا الشخص مدعى المسيحيه يصلى العيد بمفرده - كما سلم يهوذا السيد المسيح له المجد لليهود - كذلك سلم هذا المدعى التقيه اولاد المسيح الى الجلادين -- يجب عليه ان يرجع الى مصر ويتعلم المسيحيه من جديد-- ويعلم انها ليست كنيسه السيد والده ورثها مع التركه--- انها كنيسه الشعب ويل لمن تاتى منه العثرات--- ويل ويل ويل لك --- سوف تقدم حساب عسير - والايام سوف تثبت ان كما قال الانجيل خيرله ان تعلق عنقك فى حجر الرحى ا--------كفى عليك ذلك حتى تتيح فرصه اخري---

  N-  من استراليا

تم حذف بعض الجمل من الرسالة بمعرفتنا
المحرر

 

From : <Msidaros
Sent : Friday, May 5, 2006 1:12 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | Inbox

Hi,i dont defend the priest by calling the police,however i support him for inviting the government reresentative as Jesus ordered us to love each other and an example for foregiveness.Its so coward behavior to attack or reject a person who comes to your house.If you guys are brave,go to Egypt and defend our copts.Most of you guys who tried to attack this reresntative were chickens in Egypt and were scured from moslems.
Misry Aseel
 

From : BASEM NESIM <basemnesim@hotmail.com>
Sent : Thursday, May 4, 2006 7:09 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
| | | Inbox

نأسف لعدم نشر هذه الرسالة لما تضمنته من معلومات نرى ان موقعنا ليس هو المكان المناسب لمناقشتها

المحرر

From : AT
Sent : Wednesday, May 3, 2006 1:43 PM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

ان القمص متياس فريد عمله روحى فى داخل الكنيسة ولكنة يستقبل القنصل المصرى لدولة مصر صاحبة الخط الهمايونى ومذابح الاقباط منذ الزاوية الحمراء الى الاسكندرية وهدم وحرق كنائسنا فهذا لانقبلة من القمص ونحن فى بلاد تدين هذه الافعال والاجرام - مجئ القنصل المصرى الى كنائسنا عمل سياسى وهذا يضع الكنيسة تحت طائلة القانون الامريكى ونحن نحذر من هذا فى داخل الكنيسة الآية تقول ما لقيصر لقيصر وما لله لله
عاطف المصرى
 

From : ramy guirguis
Sent : Wednesday, May 3, 2006 1:09 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

ايا كان السبب الذى دفع الكاهن لاستقبال رجال الدولة لا يحق لة طلب البوليس لاولادة
لو دة اخلاق المسييحية لا اريد ان اكون مسيحى
 

 From : Novel Sefein
Sent : Tuesday, May 2, 2006 10:58 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : ST Antionus 's CXhurch tragdy
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Hi:
I read all responses from all people from St Antony's church and Also,different countires " Holand, Cyprus, Egypt and oyhers."
i agree 100% with all who condumed fr. Mitas's action
Tese people represent about 90% or more of all responses
Some of the rsepopnses that I do like and respect are from:
Adel Salib, Atef El masri, Sameh Monueer, Samer Abdelmalk, Abd Elmasheeh, .............eTC

This devision and wounds that occured in St Anthony's church should be corrected right away, enough is enough
THe church is not a place to carry business it is for worship
I agree with those who requested that fr, Matias should be sent back to Egypt and serve in Alexzandria at the Siants church wher the masacer occured.

A grief person in CA @St.Anthony

God bless amcoptic

From : Morris Sadek <morrissadek@yahoo.com>
Sent : Tuesday, May 2, 2006 1:56 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Matthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Attachment : NationalAmericanCopticAssembly.doc (0.12 MB)

National American Coptic Assembly
NACA
Washington DC
Mr. Morris Sadek – Esq. President
Email: morrissadek@yahoo.com

From : mary fawzy
Sent : Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:40 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

فقط أريد أن أخبركم أن الله سيجازيكم عن كل الادعائات الكاذبة عن ابينا الورع القمص متياس
و لو حقا عرفتموه لما كتبتم كل هذه الاكاذيب و ان كانت الكنائس فى مصر قد استقبلت ممثلى الحكومة
فما الخطا الذى إرتكبه أبى؟ و اعلموا ان الكاهن لا ياخذ راتبه منكم بل من الله.كما أريد ان أخبركم عن هذا الأب الوطنى جدا لكنيسته انه فى أيام السادات كان اول كاهن يزور البابا شنودة فى ايام بقائه فى الدير و كانت زوجته ترسل صوانى الطعام للاساقفة و الكهنة فى السجون!أفيكون هذا جزائه؟ راجعوا انفسكم جيدا قبل أن تلقوا الأحكام جزافا.
أرجو نشر رسالتى كاملة يا بلد الحرية
مارى من مصر
 

 From : AT
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 9:49 PM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


نحن نأسف عن ما تم فى هذة الكنيسة التى اصبح فيها القمص متياس فريد عثرة على اولادنا واعطاء صورة غير صحيحة عن اباء الكنيسة نحن نطالب قداسة البابا بالتحقيق ليس من اجل كنيستة فقط ولكن من اجل الاقباط فى العالم بعد ان تعرفوا عما يجرى ضد اقباط مصر واحتواء الاثار السيئة وشكرا

عبد المسيح

From : Emad Habib
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 9:17 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : Fr. Mettias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Hello,
I read a lot of the comments about this incident, and I would like to say please please, let us act in civilized manner, and don't do action make all copts look like barbaric people, But we need to see an organized investigation from the Pope or from Anba Srabion in this incident, and we need a report to be published telling all the copts concerning about that issue what happened? why? if some one did mistake what is the punishment??!!, Please we need to see such an action as soon as possible, so we are all as copts calm down and restore our trust to all the church Fathers. And please until we see that happening stop throwing accusations on abona. thank you.
 

From : emile salama
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 7:58 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : regarding father mathese
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

i'm from the sam cheruch where father mathese is
father mathease did not call the police thats lays one of the decan he called the police- father mathease he was inside (The Hekal)
my name is emile salama
if you need more informations regarding this issue send me an e-mail.
emile
 

From : john habib
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 5:58 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


تصرف الاب الكاهن مخزي للغاية


عزت عزيز حبيب
هاتف 0020103031989

From : kelada kelada
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 3:08 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


انا مسيحى انا تعليقى مش عارف ان هذا القمص لماذا فعل هذا الامر هل هو من اوامر الكاتدرائيه ام من مصالحة الشخصية ولماذا هل السياسة تحتم علينا ان نكون جبناء ولمصلحة من؟ كل ما اقوله ان هذا الاب يسامحه ربنا علي اللى عمله واكيد ربنا مش هايتخلى عن شعبه ومش هايضبع حقنا ابدا
 

From : VIVIANE GORGY
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 2:44 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

القمص متياس

ابناء الكنيسة يعتبرون ابناءك فهل لو زعلت مع ابنك من زوجتك ستحضر له البوليس وهل انت بذلك تدعو الاباء لحل مشاكلهم بالبوليس مع ابنائهم؟ اسمح لي ان اقول لك هذا تصرف لايليق باب وراعي من المفروض ان يبذل نفسه عن الرعية وليس لان يقودها للسجن منك لله الذي بذل ذاته عنا وفدانا بدمه لو هذا الموقف كان مع امام مسجد ما تصرف مثلك

مأهوره من فرنسا

From : <milhanna
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 6:58 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
| | | Inbox

Attachment : Responsetocomments.doc (0.03 MB)

Dear Mira,

Thanks for your sincere comments on what happened in our beloved church that night. We really appreciate letters and comments from young Copts who really care, and are generally honest, fair, and sincere.

I completely agree with you that “the Church is a sacred place of worship and nothing else”. That is why we always demanded that representatives of the Egyptian government should not be invited to our sacred places of worship, where we should lift our hearts and souls to the Lord. By inviting those who do not believe in Christ and his resurrection, and represent a government that persecutes, discriminates, and humiliates our Coptic brothers and sisters, we are committing two sins. First of all, we make our sacred place of worship a place for politics, thus distracting ourselves from our prayers and worship. Secondly, by inviting such individuals we are welcoming those whose policy, education system, and media have encouraged such horrible acts, the likes of those committed in Alexandria and uddaysat.

Therefore, that invitation was a disgrace to our church and congregation, besides being an insult to those who were murdered and wounded in Egypt. Such invitation caused caring people to object to the presence of the Egyptian Government Representative in such a peaceful and responsible way. However, the plan was already in place to call the police to come into the church to arrest two people, one of them did not even object, causing such interruption and confusion.

In the other hand, let me respectfully disagree with your comment pertaining to “hanging our dirty laundry in front of everyone, in public”. We have done that so many times in the past, and unfortunately, our laundry became more smelly and rotten, therefore it was decided that the sun-with its heat and light- is the only way we would be able to wash, clean, and purify our dirty laundry.

It was decided to let the people know and decide for themselves.

Mira, once again it was a pleasure to communicate with such sincere, fair, and wonderful young people like yourself.
-------------------------------------------------------

To Sally Youssef,

I have read your comments regarding what happened in St. Antonious Coptic Orthodox Church, and was amazed by the number of inaccuracies, misrepresentation, mischaracterization, and false accusations, mentioned.

Unfortunately for you, I was there and observed the events that took place first hand, and let me briefly mention some of your inaccuracies:

  1. There was no riot, except that was created by calling the police and the acts committed by the Deacons, and Mr. Nabil Ghobrial pointing to Fayez and the guest from France.

  2. The number of people who were detained, or arrested, was two not five as mentioned by you.

  3. Mr. Fayez El Gohary did not even talk to the Egyptian Government Representative, leave alone attacking the Deacons, which is completely pure mischaracterization.

  4. Your Deacons attacked, pushed, and shoved Mr. Adel Shaheed and took him outside the Church.

  5. Since you are not a member of the Church Board, one wonders how did you know that calling the police was a decision taken by the Board, not Fr. Matthias?.

  6. Some of the people you described as “Looked Stupid”, “What they did was STUPID, PERIOD”, are people who are older than you and have been members of the Church before you were even born. Calling them by such words does not comply with Christian teaching, that you are so good in preaching us.

  7. You wrote “if you knew ANYTHING about diplomacy, and even further, Christianity, you would know, etc, etc.”, and used words like; “RIDICULOUS”, “CHEAP SHOT”, “UNTRUE”, and “UNCHRISTIAN”.

  8. Frankly, if I were your father I would have disowned you for such behavior, and your usage of such words as whose mentioned in items (6) & (7).

  9. For your information, Father Matthias did not tell the police to let the people go. The truth is, the police could not justify detaining or arresting those two people. The report was false, and the police knew it.

10. It is clear that your harsh criticism of those people, as well as your strong defense of Fr. Matthias is due to the fact that he has been your priest for fifteen years. That is a fact I have no doubt about it, particularly after reading your comments.

It seems that somebody dictated to you that unfortunate letter, which is full of misrepresentation, mischaracterization, and inaccuracies. And for that I am really saddened, because I have always believed that the new generation is a better and more honest one, but your letter has proved me wrong.

Complete details of the events that took place in the Church as described by eyewitnesses will be published in our site soon

Milad Hanna
 

From :
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 9:49 PM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | Inbox


نحن نأسف عن ما تم فى هذة الكنيسة التى اصبح فيها القمص متياس فريد عثرة لأولادنا واعطاء صورة غير صحيحة عن اباء الكنيسة- نحن نطالب قداسة البابا بالتحقيق ليس من اجل كنيستة فقط ولكن من اجل الاقباط فى العالم بعد ان تعرفوا عما يجرى ضد اقباط مصر واحتواء الاثار السيئة وشكرا

عبد المسيح

From : A T >
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 1:02 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : أ‡أ،أ‍أ£أ• أ£أٹأ­أ‡أ“ أ­أ“أ،أ£ أ”أڑأˆأ¥ أ،أ،أˆأ¦أ،أ­أ“
| | | Inbox


بعد ان حاول بعض المدافعين عن ابونا متياس امام اقباط العالم بان اللجنة هى المسئولة عما حدث نقول ان اختيارهم جاء بنا على رغبة ابونا متياس وهو الذى اختارهم بدون ((((حكمة الفهم والتميز والافراز )))) ومازل ابونا هو المسئول الاول عن اختيارهم وليس الشعب

عاطف المصرى

 

From : Adib Ataalla >
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 6:40 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | Inbox


اخوتي في المسيح
في امريكا في قبرص
اعزلو ا الخبيث من بينكم
هذا امر غاية في الخطورة اذا كان من بالخارج يفعل هذا فما بالكم من في الداخل
اليس اخواننا في الداخل لهم حق حينما يضعف ايمانهم
لماذا نلوم ابن بباوي وابن الاتعس وباقي حزب يهوذا .؟ ونحن نري من باع ابناءة يثمن بخس من المفروض انهم امناء علي الرعية لكنهم يبيعون لحم الرعية لوظيفة لقريب او بعيد لن يستمر فيها

 ان الخونة رائحتهم كريهة ولا يستحقوا اي احترام
الي اي قبطي في الكنيسة من حقك الاعتراض علي الكاهن فليخرج خارجا اي كاهن يحدث انقسام في الكنيسة اي كاهن لا يراعي شعور ابناءة هو ذئب وليس راعي فليخرج خارجا ويترك العمل لمن يستحقة
ان الخدمة لمن يستحقها فقط لا من يستغلها لنفسة
 هي خدمة للرب وللشعب الذي اختار الكاهن وليست خدمة للحكومة والشرطة السريين فليخرجوا من بيننا من قبرص او امريكا فلسنا في حاجة اليهم
والرب يرعاكم
 

From : Robert Boulos
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 4:55 AM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
Inbox

What I have read about this incident, and the way ACA has represented it, and the views that have been represented here is absolutely shocking. Truly you people don't know what you are talking about. Almost all of you who have attacked Fr Metthias have absolutely no idea what really happened that night. You didn't even read people's first accounts of what happened, such as what was written by Maged Armanuse, and Sally Youssef. This means that you are either following ACA as blind sheep, or you don't know how to read English or you are simply incompetent. And I really believe that all of these apply. And to prove this, no one of you people will even read this message and reply back to me. But I still have to make my point.

As long as we behave like the sons and daughters of this world, and not as the sons and daughters of the Lord Jesus Christ, then the Copts of Egypt have a much better chance to be saved than those who live outside of Egypt.

If it is true, what you say about this Priest, being a traitor because he kisses up to the Egyptian Government. Then ACA are nothing but hypocrites, for you also kiss up to the American government believing that one day they will be running to save the Copts of Egypt. Which makes you both hypocrites and delusional. For your masters should not be the American government, but the Lord Jesus Christ.
Robert Boulos

From : ynni_77
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 1:05 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
Inbox

Attachment : سلامربالمجداخوتىالأحباءفىالمسيح.doc (0.02 MB)

سلام رب المجد اخوتى الأحباء فى المسيح

انااسف لما حدث فى كنيسة الآنبا انطونيوس كيف يدعو الكاهن الموقر القنصل المصرى ويرحب به فى الكنيسه وهولايؤمن بقيامة المسيح وكيف تتجاهل مشاعر اولادك وتتجاهل مشاعر شعبك وتكون مثل يهوذا يبيع دم المسيح ودم الشهداء الآقباط عامةً هل هذا الترحيب اغلى من دم المسيح ودم شهدائنا الآبرياء اعتقد لا والف لا - كل شئ له ثمن وليس دم المسيح الغالى يكون رخيص بهذا الثمن لوعندك مصالح شخصيه آهم تكون ياعزيزى القمص بعيداً عن مكان العباده عاوز تقابل السيد القنصل يبقى فى بيتك وليس فى بيت الله [ الكنيسه] وليس رغم انف الشعب القبطى ورغم علمك بآنه ليس موضع ترحيب من بعض افراد الشعب ورغم موافقتك مع الآباء الكهنه فى المنطفه بناءاً على اتفاقكم بالتلفون فمن الحكمه كأب كاهن ان توقف الشغب قبل حدوثه وليس تحدى لمشاعر الشعب المجروح من مأساة الآسكندريه هل هذا التصرف من الحكمه لا اعتقد .

المفروض الكاهن يخدم الشعب وليس الشعب يخدم الكاهن .

ونحن الشعب القبطى لا يشرفنا ان يكون مثلك ينتسب الى الكنيسه القبطية بل على العكس انت تسبب وصمة عـــــــــــــار للكنيسه .

ينى لوقا – لوس انجلوس

ynni_77@

From : Emad Nessim Hanna
Sent : Monday, May 1, 2006 2:10 AM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


فعلا مش ناقصه واحد زي ده - اشلحوه قبل ما يعدي التانيين
او احسن حل ان ترجعوه مصر هو و عيلته و عياله و يكون كاهن علي كنيسة القديسين اللي اتقتل فيها عم نصحي عشان يفوق و يصحصح- بس فعلا الراجل ده مايتسبش بعد ما يعض الناس اللي بتدفعله مرتبه و تخليه عنده بيت و زوجه و اطفال !!!
 

From : george zaky
Sent : Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:22 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


السيدات والسادة:
انا من وسط الاحداث المحزنه فى مصر
برجاء شيلوا صوره هذا الكاهن من الموقع
لحسن احنا ارفانين منه جدا
وان شاء الله نصيبه بكون معاهم فى الجحيم للابد
goKaras

From : gamil gorgy <>
Sent : Sunday, April 30, 2006 8:23 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


القمص متياس

سامحني لا استطيع ان اقول لك ابونا لان تصرفك ليس فيه شئ من الابوة

حزين من باريس
 

 From : Ragui H. Michael, MD
Sent : Sunday, April 30, 2006 4:40 AM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : Father Mathias Farid Wahba - El-Keraz of 11/07/2003
Inbox
In 2003, following an extensive investigation into Father Mathias "questionable financial activities", His Grace the Pope issued Papal Decree number 25/32 (published in El-Keraz of 11/07/2003) limiting Father Mathias's activities to the church's religious services only and assigning His Grace Bishop Serapion of Los Angeles as the head of the church and Father Whaba's superior.
The question is, did Father Mathias take Bishop Serapion's permission before making any such decision?
Ragui H. Michael, MD
San Francisco, CA
 

From : Ihab Attalla
Sent : Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:46 AM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : 
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Dear Copts,

I am writing this message regarding the incident which took place in the U.S.A with Father./ Mettias Wahba calling the police for one of his people.

This incident raises a lot of question?!

Have the Egyptian government agents awere able to infiltrate the Coptic clergy or congrergations in the diaspora.We know that they arleady did that to our clergy and people in Egypt, if so what contra -action should be taken by the Coptic movement, to make our Copic people aware of the fifth line and triators among us.

Further more the recent atttacks on our Coptic people in Alexandria, made me feel that the only solution for the Coptic Nation is through the establishemnt of an Independent Coptic State for the Copts in Egypt.

Thank You

Ihab Attalla

From : M
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 11:55 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

lets give him a chance to tell us what was he thinking .
maher

From : Samir Saad
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 10:39 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :  عندنا شعب ساذج على قفا من يشيل
 FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

إنها أحدث الطرق للغزو الإسلامى لكنائسنا فى الداخل وفى الخارج، حيث يدفع لنا الأزهر كل عام ببعض الكهنة ليندسوا فى الخدمة، وتقوم المخابرات بتعويض العجز عن طريق تجنيد  أعداد أخرى، وتبدأ اللعبة بتخويف الأقباط بإن اللى حيفتح بقه الحكومة حتموت أهله فى مصر - وطبعا عندنا شعب ساذج على قفا من يشيل وتبقى جات له على الطبطاب وينام وضميره مستريح ، واخواته اللى فى مصر يا بختهم كلهم حا يروحوا السما وهو شاعر فى المهجر بالفخر لأنه ساعدهم على دخول الفردوس، وطبعا الكاهن مبسوط طول ما السفير مبسوط منه،

لماذا لا تكون هناك ضوابط ومعايير خاصة عند إختيار الأب الكاهن؟، بحيث نطمئن إلى إخلاصهم وإلتزامهم بالمبادئ المسيحية التى لا تفرط فى الحقوق وليس كما يحاولون أن يقنعونا ان المسيحية ضعف وان الضعف والتنازل عن الحقوق هو الباب الوحيد لدخول الفردوس، هم غير مستعدين للتنازل عن مرتباتهم ولكنهم مستعدين للتنازل عن ارواح شعبهم، ولكن المحزن أن هذه النوعية كثيرة ومنتشرة ويخيل لك انهم خريجى كلية الشريعة جامعة الأزهر وليس كلية اللاهوت وكل واهد منهم يقوم بمهارة بعملية غسيل مخ لشعب كنيسته ويحول بعضهم لقطيع من الماشية المستأنسة والبعض الاخر لذئاب مفترسة يطلقهم لمهاجمة معارضيه  بينما يتسربلون هم بأقنعة المسكنة والطهارة

آخر إشاعة فى الخارجية هنا بتقول ان السفارة بتاعة امريكا بتجهز رحلة مدفوعة لمصر هذا الصيف للبعض من المختارين ممن أثبتوا أنهم أبناء شرعيين للحكومة فى الحكاية الأخيرة

والبقية فى حياتكم

سمير سعد - الدقى- مصر

From : Fr. Matthias F. Wahba frmatthias@antonius.org
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 6:48 PM
To : "'mira ghali'" mira_rd@yahoo.com, amcoptic@hotmail.com, coptpope@tecmina.com, BishopSerapion@LACopts.org, FrSalib@yahoo.com, webmaster@stmarystjohn.org, father@father-ishaia.com, father-ishaia@yahoo.com, FRHANNA@aol.com
Subject : RE: About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Dear daughter,
Thanks & God bless.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mira ghali [mailto:mira_rd@yahoo.com]
Sent: 26 April 2006 20:41 PM
To: amcoptic@hotmail.com; coptpope@tecmina.com; BishopSerapion@LACopts.org; FrSalib@yahoo.com; webmaster@stmarystjohn.org; father@father-ishaia.com; father-ishaia@yahoo.com; frmatthias@antonius.org; FRHANNA@aol.com
Subject: About Fr. Metthias

Dear all,

The following message was sent to the Coptic Association via email in regards to the articles written by Mr. Iskander related to Father Mattias Wahba.
Unsurprisingly, the article was not posted as I suspected, because it doesn't serve Mr. Iskander's cause, which is to slander people publicly. He asks people to send him their comments on the incident, and he screens the comments, posts what he likes and ignores what he dislikes.
The reason I am sending you this email, is to prove how biased he is.

Thank you.

Dear fellow Christians,

What has happened to us?! Have we nothing else to do but judge one of our own people?!!

Who are we to judge? even Jesus himself didn't judge the woman who was brought to him while committing adultery?!! Are we better than Jesus?!

I am saddened by the divisions I see among ourselves. We're fulfilling the verse that describes the end of days when God's people and Churches divide amongst themselves.

First of all, the Church is a sacred place of worship. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING should interrupt the Holy Mass. If someone wanted to protest, you could have stood outside the Church and held your signs. The Church is not home for politics, it's a home for Jesus. In Church, Jesus is between us, how could we talk politics with him? how could we distract his children from him? how could we fight while we're with him?
Have we forgotten that we are not on earth during the Holy Mass? Have we forgotten that we're lifted to Heavens when we're with him? How could we disrespect such honor?
The gentleman who described Father Mattias as Judas, forgot that Jesus sat and ate with Judas, he didn't slander him publicly!

Let us suppose that Father Mathias did call the police, which I doubt that a priest will leave the Holy Liturgy and go find a phone to call the police! But for the sake of argument, let's suppose that happened. Do we hang our dirty laundry in front of everyone in public?! (Forgive me for using the word dirty here as I am trying to make a point)

Do we make a joke out of ourselves in front of Christians and non Christians? Do we disregard Jesus' teachings about loving each other? What is left ladies and gentlemen?

Have we forgotten that this priest has served the Church and its people for more than 40 years? Regardless of his personal acts, if any?! Or do we like to tear someone apart as soon as we hear something we don't like?
It seems like this is the Egyptian way of doing things. I just didn't think it would happen amongst ourselves disgracing each other in public!

Where is forgiveness and love that Jesus taught us? Have we forgotten the basic teachings of our Bible?

My fellow Christians, the devil have found his way between us. Before, the fight was against us united. But now it's among ourselves. Let's stop him before it's too late. Let us focus at what is at hand. Let us not get distracted, and let us not forget that we are Christians in heart and in action.

Let us not forget "Do not judge, or you too will be judged, for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you".

Mr. Iskander, I doubt you will post my email, as I noticed some bias in the ones posted except for a couple of them. But I pray to God that you haven't reached that point and thanks for your continued support and fight for Copts' rights.
God Bless.
Mira

From : sameh ibrahim
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 10:36 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


ان الكاهن الذى يتصرف بهذه الطريقه لهو كاهن فقد محبته لشعبه واذا فقد الكاهن محبته لشعبه لا يعود يدعى راعى لهذا الشعب .لذا كيف يرعى الكاهن شعب لا يحبه ؟. اما ان يعتذر الكاهن لشعبه. واما ان يعود الى مصر فاقد محبته.وقد سطر فى تاريخ الكنيسه انقسام يحاسب عليه كنسيا.اما ما فعله فى حد ذاته مرفوض .لانه حتى لو رأى انه على صواب فيما يعتقد .فاين احتماله لشعبه واين غيره الراعى على رعيته.عندى عليك يا ابونا انك تركت محبتك الاولى.ونطلب من الجميع ان يصلوا من اجله والرب يبارك تعب محبتكم.
سامح منير -هولندا

 

From : Adib Ataalla
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 10:08 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


اخوتي في المسيح
لا داعي لاقحام قداسة البابا في موضوع مثل هذا الامر في ايدينا ببساطة لا احد يريدة في الكنيسة فهو غير مءوهل للخدمة
وعلي مجلس ادارة الكنيسة طردة ببساطة ولا شعبب يصلي معة بل وابلاغ الشرطة ان تواجدة غير مرغوب فية علي حسب راي الشعب وجمع توقيعات لطردة من الكنيسة والاخوة في المنظمات لهم الاولوية في طرد اي كاهن يرون فية خطورة علي امن الاقباط ويتعاون مع الارهابيين او يخضع لهم
ايوب المصري

 

From : ramses bekheet
Sent : Friday, April 28, 2006 8:20 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : shame on him
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


بالرغم مما تعلمت فى الكنيسة القبطية من احترام الاباء الكهنة و السمع و الطاعة العمياء الا ان الموقف لا يحتمل سكوتا لا املك الا ان اصرخ فى وجهك حرام يا ابى ان كنت لا تزال تستحق ان تدعى ابا لا لكل من يبيع دم شهدائنا لا لمن يتودد للسلطة الملطخة يداها بدم ابرارنا و ان كان يحق لى ان اصرخ او ائن لقداسة البابا شنودة ليعيدة الى مصر فورا لينعم فى احضان السلطة اللتى يستمرئها ولو كان الامر بيدى لحرمتة من الكهنوت الذى ارى انة لا يستحق شرفة بعد هذة الفعلةالمخذية فى تاريخ كهنتنا المحترمين ربما عكست الوضع ليسامحنى المسيح لكن اقولها لة ولكل من يتاجر بدم الشهداء لا حل ولا بركة قبطى صميم
ramses bekheet

From : Alkalema Center alkalema@hotmail.com
Sent : Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:45 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : ممدوح نخلة
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

القمص متياس فريد ثبت انه عميل امنى وقد خرج عن الاجماع الكنسى لشعبة والكنيسة ليست عزبة او اقطاعية له وانما هى ملك الشعب ومنذ اعتلاء قداسة البابا شنودة السدة المرقسية وهو يرسى ويؤكد مبدأ موافقة الشعب على الراعى قبل اختيارة بمعنى ان الشعب هو الذى يختار راعية ويحاسبة واعتقد ان اقل حساب لهذا الكاهن وقفه عن العمل الرعوى لمدة معينه
ممدوح نخلة

 From : Pharos Pharos
Sent : Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:29 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


بسم الله القوي
أنا بس كنت عايز أعلق على تصرفات هذا القمص وأقول أذا كان يحب الأرتماء في أحضان الحكومة المصرية المحرضة على أضطهاد الأقباط في مصر فليأتي الى مصر ليكون بجانب أحبابة من المسئولين فهو لا يستحق ان يعيش في أمريكا بلد الحريات- أما بالنسبة لتسليمة أثنين من أبناء الكنيسة الى الشرطة فأنا لا أعرف كيف قضى العيد وترك شخصين يقبعون في السجن لا لشىء الا لوجود ضمير حي لديهم وضمير ميت لديه-أسأله-ما الفرق بينك وبين يهوذا الذي سلم السيد المسيح-يهوذا سلم المسيح بثلاثين من الفضة وأنت سلمت أبنائك بمصالح رخيصة
يعقوب مكرم
مصر

From : george yousef
Sent : Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:42 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox



I do not know him in person, but what i heared from other priests that his son is running a big business between US and Egypt, and that is why he needs the governement to facilitate his "family business"

I wish an action could be taken by the church to move him to another church, and this might be a good lesson for him..but it might be tooo late for him to learn how to protect his congregation!!!!


Sincerely,

George M Yousef, MD PhD MSc

From : George Daoud
Sent : Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:31 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


انه لمن دواعى العجب أن يتخلى الراعى عن رعيته وأن ترى أناس غرباء عن الكنيسة يدافعون عن ابنائها لسبب واحد وهو الاحساس بالانتماء لهم فى الانسانية لاتجمعهم بهم معمودية ولا ثقافة وربما لغة مثل ما فعلت وفاء سلطان وبعض الجنسيات الاخرى من معظم دول العالم المختلفة.

جورج - كندا

From : Net Point Roma
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:33 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


i have just say he is dishonest. for his service

From : REMON HATRAM
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:16 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : سلام الرب يسوع
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox


كل شعب المسيح اللى فى مصر معاكم
الرب يسوع معاكم

From : kgjufh kgjfuf
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:34 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

ليس فقط القمص متياس وهبه الذي فعل ذلك ,بل قام القس بنيامين الانبا بولا في قبرص, بعد ان قام القس زكريا الانبا بولا بتنظيم مسيره في نيقوسيا بقبرص وكل شعبه يحبوا في نيقوسيا وحيث حاول السفير المصري بمنعها الا انه خرج حاملا اليافطاط
فقام القس بنيامين بتهديد شعبه ان ذهبوا الي هذه المسيره
وقد رفض القس زكريا الانبا بولا استقبال السفير واعضائها , الا ان قام القس بنيامين باستقبالهم والاصعب من ذلك جعل السفير يعظ مكانه وقت العظه. والشعب هناك مستاء جدا لهذه التصرفات الغريبه التي يفعلها القس بنيامين
وقد ارسلنا منذ اربعه اشهر شكوي ضده للبابا شنوده عن تصرفاته الغير لائقه بالكهنوت . من عمليات نصب وسرقه فلوس من اولاده الشباب ولم يتحرك احد نرجوكم انقذونا منه نحن شباب فقير جائنا لنعمل وهو يتخذ هذا الوضع لارهابنا ولا نستطيع ان نفعل شئ واتصلوا بابونا زكريا وهو يعلمكم بكل الاحداث
واحد مقهور

 

From : ctap
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:56 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

حاجة تكسف ابعدوة عن الكنيسة فهو لا يمثلها يروح عند الحكومة المصرية خليها
تورية اللى عمره ما شافة علشان يعرف ان الله حق
 

 From : SUZAN ANDRAUS
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:22 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

God help us two times.

From : Sherif A. Tawfik
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 2:17 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

I have sent my comment yesterday.
Publish my opinion.
Don't be biased towards one opinion. Don't imitate the Egyptian government.

My comment again is:

I think the priest's point of view should be given as well before jumping into harsh accusations.
I personally think it is wise to have some sort of communication channels with the Egyptian government. Even though this government is not fair to the coptic people still no gains can be made by the continuous offense. Dialogues and negotiations are equally important to arrive at compromising solutions that maintain the pride of both the governmnet and the coptic people.
I personally demand the death sentence on the churchs attacker even if he is mentally disturbed so that it can be an example to anyone who thinks about doing a similar foolish action in the future.

Sherif

From : George
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:38 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

This priest and the evil group around him should be send out of our church
George

From : Ihab Matthews
Sent : Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:26 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

I support what our members did 100%, may we all have the courage to do the same and stand for our persecuted brethren in Egypt. Legal action should be taken against those who called and lied to the Police.

Ihab

From : Cynthia Soliman
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:14 AM
To : <amcoptic@hotmail.com>
Subject : Article Re Fr. Matthias

FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

I am an American Coptic, but your organization does not represent me. The reason is simple; I had the misfortune of perusing your website and the ridiculous rant that was published regarding Fr. Matthias Wahba of Hayward, California. Many thoughts immediately came to my mind upon reading this drivel: I was concerned that such harsh words were being said about a man who is loving, kind and welcoming, as a priest should be (and as was our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ); I was offended that the day on which we celebrate the very reason for our being was marred by this unfortunate incident; Perhaps, tellingly, the attorney in me thought “this is libel.” While I will address each of these points, in turn, suffice it to say that I was able to draw a very simple conclusion: The devil is alive and well and he is rearing his ugly head on amcoptic.com.

First off, you should know that as a congregant of Fr. Matthias, I do not agree with him 100% of the time. I do have occasion to disagree with him. But, he is a father to me and all of his congregants and he overwhelmingly displays a spirit of love and selflessness to all his children. I cannot speak for Fr. Matthias, but I think he must have been hurt and offended by the awful and baseless accusations against him, as published on your website. Ask yourselves – what did Fr. Matthias do to deserve this? I cannot find one good reason that any Christian should tear another apart, simply because he welcomed and embraced a perceived enemy. If I recall correctly (and I am no biblical scholar, mind you) this is what our Lord Jesus Christ did. He embraced those who were perceived to be enemies and outcasts. For this reason he hated, and spat upon and eventually crucified. Yet, in his glory, he emerged triumphant. Your hateful words exemplify the hypocrisy which Christ strove to bring to the attention of those around him.

Of course, I am horrified at the violence that continues in our country, and around the world against Christians. I am disgusted by the tactics of Muslim extremists who are fueled by complacent governments, such as the government of Mohammed Hosni Mubarak. However, I fail to see how a diatribe against a Coptic priest, who welcomed a Muslim into his Church will stop another Copt from dying, or another Muslim from pursuing extreme measures in an effort to eradicate Christianity.

It is also terribly unfair to hold Mr. Salaheldin personally responsible for the atrocities that are occurring in Egypt. Yet, this appears to be precisely what the two gentlemen who so brazenly disrupted our liturgy were trying to do. I certainly cannot tell people what to do. They are allowed to express their opinion, but to use of the concepts in your article, they should have done so on their own time, without using the Church as a vehicle for their political position.

I am completely understating the facts when I note that your article is full of bizarre and contradictory statements. For example, in purporting to recite the facts, your article states that Fayez el Gihenny and Nagy Awad were simply minding their own business. Yet, in the same bizarre run on sentence, the article states that one of these two men allegedly tried to give letters of dissent or protest to Mr. Salaheldin. If these two gentlemen were quietly sitting in the Church, how did this incident occur? If, in fact, they were trying to bring their protest regarding the situation in Alexandria to Mr. Salaheldin’s attention, I do not need to tell you that this was an inappropriate time and place to do so. The liturgy is not the forum for discussing our political protests any more than it is a forum to discuss the gory details of last week’s root canal. It astounds me that I have to point out how terribly inappropriate this behavior is. The article also goes on to recount the statement regarding our Coptic blood being on Mr. Salaheldin’s hands. Yet if we are to believe the article, such a statement was not made by either Mr. Award or Mr. el Gihenny, but a ghost; As a result, the article suggests that these two men were “arrested” because statements made by a ghost were attributed to them. Nonsense.

I am sure it has already been brought to your attention that the “facts” in your article are not facts at all. They are lies, disguised as facts – the proverbial wolf in sheep’s clothing. Fundamentally, it would behoove you to investigate the facts you present before passing them off as the truth. The truth is that you have no facts to support your accusations against Fr. Matthias. You do not know what role he serves on the Board of Directors (hint: none); You do not know and cannot prove that he invited the consular general to St. Antonious Church for any improper purpose, particularly a personal one; You have no evidence that Fr. Matthias has any followers who do whatever he says. Be advised that by publishing this false information on your website and subjecting Fr. Matthias hatred, contempt and ridicule in the Coptic community, you have committed libel in the eyes of California Law, pursuant to Civil Code, section 45a. In doing so, you expose yourself to threat of civil litigation and possible monetary damages. How many Christians will that save?

In sum, your article is ridiculous at best, if not a complete and utter travesty and disgrace to American Copts. It is shameful that you would choose to defame a priest to justify the wholly inappropriate actions of two protestors, who are no better than the Muslims who terrorize Copts in their churches. Their actions did not draw attention to the atrocious acts committed in Egypt; they drew attention to the silly acts of the protestors themselves. What is more, your insane article has now given the world a vision of a divisive Church whose own members are its enemies. (Remember the words of Abraham Lincoln? “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” He was paraphrasing Jesus, by the way.) As your unfortunate article proves, we need not fear Muslims. It is ourselves we must fear. The devil is within. We need look no further than our own congregations to find the ultimate threat. How shameful.

In Christ,

Cynthia Soliman
 

From : Hany Mesiah
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:48 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

My Brothers and Sisters In Christ:

Shame on Father Hosni Metthias Wahba Mubarak for what he did for the American Coptic Association members in America. It is his type of action which is why we are in trouble in Egypt, Copts selling-out Copts. The Lord said judge-not so I can only say that I am sure when he dies he will go the same place as the Egyptien Goverment who he loves and supports so much.

I heard from my friend who lives in San Francisco that the man who brought in the police pointed to the wrong two gentlemen while ignoring the man who initially went to talk to the consul. He said this was because Fr Wahba Mubarak had been looking for any reason to destroy the ACA in his church for quite some time. If I understand correctly then, the two men who were detianed actually did nothing warranting police action? Is it not a crime to lie to the police in America?

In Him,
Hany Mesiah, PhD
Cologne, Germany

From : hany victor
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:38 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

http://www.antonius.org

Fr. Matthias- Priest at our church for 16 years. He celebrated his 43rd year as a priest at the end of 2005

http://father-matthias.org/
pray for him

From : Johanna Boulus
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:06 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : Comments on Fr Wahba
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Dear Fellow Copts,

I have noticed couple of smug replies from other Fr Wahba-cowards. My questions for you are these:

1) What you have ever done to help the Copts in Egypt?

2) You are talk bad about these heroes for doing the job you don't have the guts to do (and shame on you for that) by saying that they defile the church by their action. but what about those: Didnt the Priest defile the Church by letting these criminals from the Egyptain governemnt (who persecute both your family and my family) in?

You are no better than the traitor Priest.

John

 From : BASTA, NABIL
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:38 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Please unit the church and do not divide it. This is a very difficult time in our history. Let us be one united front that can stand against those who are persecuting us. Remember who died defending our faith in Alexandria and in southern Egypt. Priests here do not represent us and should not act as the owners of our churches. Remember Chicago and what happened in Chicago. It is a bad memory.

Nabil Basta

From : John Kevarian
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:40 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : Fr Matthias Wahba
FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Wagdi Hazfallah, you are a traitor and the same corrupt, weak variety of Egyptian government spy traitor like Matthias who should be banned form christ's blessed church and instead be redirected to the nearest mosque wehre you belong. Shame on you for attacking these HEROES while you stand back like a COWARD and defend those who are killing your family in Egypt. SHAME ON YOU AND MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL ON JUSGEMENT DAY.

Also, how DARE YOU talk about what the ACA stands for you are obviousley one of them many traitors who stands against all of their Pro-Copt stances (as opposed to your pro-muslim ones).

WEBMASTER, why are you leting the comments of other Governent Spies like this "Hazfallah" character through?

From : Muslim Convert to Humanistic
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:47 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : scumbags

If the Copts know the history and what dirty rolls our priests played, we should not be surprise of what that priest did.
We need to stand against those scumbags.
Peace
Muslim Convert to Humanistic

From : MAURICE SOLIMAN
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:15 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

يهوذا كان من تلاميذ السيد المخلص...لماذا تتعجبون !!!في كل زمان واوأن ستجدون يهوذات فلا تتعجبون من الأخساء
Kinggogo777

From : Sameer Abdulmalek
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:29 PM
To : "amcoptic@hotmail.com" amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias--In Response to John Hafzalla
To Mr. John Hafzalla,

I am sorry for you that you do not understand what happened in San Francisco during the liturgy on the eve of Resurrection Sunday inside Saint Anthony's Church from members from the American Coptic Association.

I am proud to see the posting on the American Coptic Association website regarding the incident. Free people should always express themselves, and their voice should be heard.

Your response is an embarrassment to the American Coptic Association. The words that were written force me to rethink your affiliation with this organization. As a matter of fact, I think you might be even affiliated with the Egyptian government.

To my beloved Mr. Fayez El-Giheny, Mr. Nagy Awad please accept my personal apology for what Mr. Hafzalla has written.

The actions taken by the members show self-respect, and respect for a place of worship where traitors and killers should not be allowed to destroy its holiness, and it reflects the Christian bravery that our Lord taught us through St. George who was an example of the brave Christian soldier.

Whether Father Matthias Farid called the police as stated on the website of the American Coptic Association, or the call was placed by a member of the congregation it is cowardice to stop the free from doing what others can not.

The Egyptian ambassador in San Francisco was given permission to come to attend the Liturgy to congratulate the congregation on the Alexandria's massacre by Father Matthias after consulting H.G. Bishop Serapion of Los Angeles, California. The Church is not the priest. The church lives inside every Christian. Special thanks to H.G. Bishop Serapion for supporting the Egyptian Government.

I can not imagine allowing an invitation to be approved, right after we have been attacked by the invited person and what he represents.

I feel ashamed of the congregation and especially the woman who stopped the free Copts inside the church.

To Mr. Hafzalla, I would like to ask you:

What did we gain by your cowardice (sometimes mistakenly called Christian love)? Why did you not lead peaceful demonstrations in front of the Egyptian Consulate if you can not defend the church?

I have a great deal more to say to you who claim to be a Copt. What you have written should not be presented as an act of Christianity or supported by the misinterpreted Christian love. These words were written on your own without consulting your own self respect and against the Christian pride; you should be responsible for the consequences of your Cowardice.

I asked myself, why we do not have a major support from congregations of our churches, one of the reasons is such irresponsible behavior while anyone who knows what the words dignity and honor mean will agree that we, the Copts , are facing discriminations, injustices, and persecutions in our country Egypt.

If we need others to respect us, we need to respect ourselves first. We must present our concerns in a brave manner to gain support from our brothers and sisters in the Lord, from our churches.

You need to look deeper instead of believing the surface just because it makes your life easier.

Sadly yours,

-Sameer Abdulmalek

From : 
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:07 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس


اخوتي في الرب سلام المسيح لكم جميعا

هل وصل بنا الهوان الي هذا الحد المظلم إذ نصغر انفسنا بهذة الصورة لقد كتب هذا الرجل وثيقة تقاعدة من الكهنوت فلم يعد يصلح لان يكون كاهنا بل من ياتي بالشرطة لشعبة ليس راعي بل ذئب اري من اللائق عدم دخول كنيستة الي ان يخرج بلا رجعة واضح انة من رجال الامن السريين ولا يجوز ان يدخل اي كنيسة
بل هو عار علي اي قبطي فبينما يقتل اهلنا في مصر نجد هنا في امريكا من يزايد علي نفوذ السلطان ومن الخطأ السكوت لشخص مثل هذا اري طردة فورا من كنيسة الاقباط حيث هو ليس قبطي قلبا
واشكركم لسرية التعليق
وتقبلوا شكري لكم واسفي علي هذا الشخص
والرب يبارككم ويعزينا في الموت الروحي لاثمال هؤلاء الخونة

From : true thing
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:46 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias


Father Forgive him for he does not know what he has done...!!
Jesus Christ

From : عبد المسيح
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:53 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject
:

هل القمص متياس يمثل الشعب القبطى كلة ومنتخب منهم ليمثلهم امام قنصل دوله مصر فى سان فرانسيسكو فاذا استقبل القنصل فهو عمل سياسى وافق علية القمص متياس ان يقوم بة بدون ان ينتخب فليحذر الكاهن الدخول فى معاريج السياسة لان السياسة بين الرفض والموازرة وهذا كاهن وليس سياسى
ولن نسمح للحكومة المصرية بمزج الدين ووالسياسة فعلى ا لغرب وعلى كل المسيحين الذين عاشوا فى حضن الاسلام ان يتعلموا ليس هنا فى الغرب هذا المزج

عبد المسيح

From : A T
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:42 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :


ان لم يكن ابونا متياس لم يعطى الاوامر من قبل للجنة الموقرة فلماذا لم يعترض على مجيئهم فى داخل كنيستة ان كل الذين يحاولون غسل ايدى ابونا من حضور البوليس نقول لهم لماذا خرج القمص متياس عن الاباء فى كل الكنائس فى العالم كله هذا هو السؤال ياحضرات الافاضل وتحدى الشعب القبطى فى كل مكان وان لدينا اتصالات بمعرفة ان ابونا متياس اتصل بالقنصلية وقال لهم اتفضلوا وتحدى عموم الاقباط هذة هى الحقيقة

عاطف المصرى

From : John Hafzalla
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:18 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
CC : Wagdirh
Subject : About Fr. Metthias


I am sorry to hear about what happened in San Francisco during the liturgy on the eve of Resurrection Sunday inside Saint Anthony’s Church from members from the American Coptic Association.

I am disappointed to see the posting on the American Coptic Association website regarding the incident.

This incident is an embarrassment to the American Coptic Association. The actions that were taken force me to rethink my affiliation with this organization.

To my beloved Father Matthias Farid Wahba, the congregation of St. Anthony’s Church, and the Egyptian Ambassador in San Francisco please accept my personal apology for what has taken place inside our Church.

The actions taken by the members show no respect for a place of worship and do not reflect the Christian love that our Lord taught us on the cross.

Father Matthias Farid did not call the police as stated on the website of the American Coptic Association, that call was placed by a member of the congregation before anything serious happened.

The Egyptian ambassador in San Francisco was given permission to come to attend the Liturgy to congratulate the congregation on the Feast of Resurrection by the church after consulting H.G. Bishop Serapion of Los Angeles, California.

I cannot imagine allowing an invitation to be approved, only to be followed by an attack.

I thank the congregation and especially the woman who stopped the attacker inside the church.

To the members who acted out in the church, I would like to ask you:

What did we gain by your act? Why did you not lead peaceful demonstrations in front of the Egyptian Consulate and choose to bring politics into the church?

I have a great deal more to say to those of you who claim to be members of the American Coptic Association. What you have done should not be presented as the act of the American Coptic Association or supported by them. These actions were done on your own without consulting the other members and against the Montreal convention recommendations; you should be responsible for the consequences of your actions.

I asked myself, why we do not have majority support from congregations of our churches, one of the reasons is such irresponsible behavior such as these when the majority of Christians agree that we face discriminations, injustices, and persecutions in our country Egypt.

If we need others to respect us, we need to respect them first. We must present our concerns in a civilized manner to gain support from our brothers and sisters in the Lord, from our churches.

The website needs to remove the exaggerations, false facts, and cease to attack the clergy.

Finally I would like to point out that unless we change our behavior and methodology of dealing with problems we will not succeed, since I do not live in San Francisco to confirm what I heard from various sources I am attaching one of the email sent by Sally Youssef young girl from the Church and have seen it all.

Her email may never be published on the American Coptic Association web site, please read it here,

Respectfully yours,

Wagdi Hafzalla

From : nagy mikhail
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:06 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr ,Metthias (judas new meleniam)


Another judas at another place in another time but he will go to the same place. kirryalayson
 

From : Saleeb El Miniawy
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:35 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس


I do not know that priest, but I know many of them are really bad people. Those priest were the responsible for the Muslims to treat us that bad; they are liars and cowards. The Lord will save us from them, but we need to expose their bad deed.

Saleeb El Miniawy

England

From : Wagihguirguis
Sent : Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:05 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : About Fr. Metthias

I think Fr. Metthias has to leave his job as a priest and enter the Egyptian parliament.
W. F. Guirguis

From : Nasr Sharobim
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 11:17 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس


It is a shame. After I have finished reading this article I watched fr Marcos Aziz's video. You can understand The difference between these two priests.

Fr Marcos asked the Christine to prepare themselves for another martial time.
Fr Matthias hand out the Christen to Police.

Fr Marcos asked God to defend the Christine from the Egyptian's government.
Fr Matthias asked his followers to defend the Egyptian governor.

Nasr

From : Albert Faltas
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 8:09 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :
القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس

it is not strange Judas will be always there to
memorize us ,if it is not judas it is kiafa
take it easy
albert
 

From : Emad Eskander
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 8:16 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :
القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس

It is time now that our religious leaders will refrain from acting as our political ones. We are lacking political leadership for the following reasons:
1- The Egyptian government did not allow a secular Christian political cadre to exist.
2- The Egyptian government gave the green light to our religious leaders to assume a political leader so they can be easily contained.
3- The Christian congregations in Egypt and all around the world look up to the clergy as God's representatives on Earth, thus bestowing them with unrealistic and unopposed authority.
4- Some of the clergy enjoy their power and will not allow the politicians to make any advances, or using the church facilities to invite the congregations to do any political work.
5- The church has become detached from its surroundings, whether it is in Egypt or it is in America. I do not hear the church praying for our troops in Iraq, or our president Bush, or even defending America and protecting America from the Islamic invasion.
6- Our church has become hollow and sterile. May God have mercy.
Emad.

From : Georg
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:50 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :


فقد محبة الشعب القبطى بفرنسا

جورج
 

From : Adel
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:46 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :


صح النوم يا ابانا الا تعلم ان كل قبطى الان معة كاميرا لتتكلم للناس ماذا يفعل بنا الموالين للحكومة الا تعلم ان التليفون المحمول بة كاميرا لتتكلم لايوجد اب حنون يدع ابنه فى الحبس يا قدس ابونا متياس واذ كنت حكمت على نفسك لما حكم الناس عليك

عادل

From : Aziz
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:41 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :


بعد فعلة ابونا متياس هذه فقد عزل نفسه عن الشعب القبطى وقد عزله الشعب القبطى من قلبه

خادم الرب عزيز


From : Abdel Maseh
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:37 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject


اذا كان منظر صور الاقباط وهم فى يدهم الحديد امام البوليس الامريكى يشرف الكنيسة فلنترك ابونا متياس يجرم فينا وفى شعبنا القبطى
عبد السيح
 

From : Ashref Ramelah
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:32 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :

04/24/06

Dear all;

Unfortunately there are people inside the Church that they act according to their personal interest. I’m certain that what our brothers did against the regime consul was 100% right.

In this critical moment of our life I hope that each one of us put Christ in front of his eyes and act accordingly.

Please do not attack the priest outside of our Church and its constitutional body, we all know that he did not act consequently to the most recent events in Alexandria or in Egypt in general. God forgave him, but we people of Christ will go ahead seeking for our freedom in our land.

God bless all of you

Ashref H. Ramelah, Associate AIA

Chief Exectutive Officer

From : A T
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 4:19 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com

وان كنا نحترم الكهنوت لانه مؤسس برب المجد يسوع المسيح إلا ان ابونا متياس قسم الكنيسة لعدم فطنته نتيجة العمل الذى قام به وهو نفس عمل الاستاذ نبيل بيباوى وجمال اسعد عملاء الحكومة والكاهن فى امريكا ليس رئيس الشعب بل هو خادم الشعب وممكن الاستغناء عن خدماته ان كان الشعب يقرر هذا وان ابونا متياس لايحمل آلام ابنائه فى مصر ان اكثر من اربعين اسرة شردت بعد حرق محلاتها وكان من الاولى ان يجمع ويساعد فى مساعدة هذه الاسر المشردة الآن وليعلم ان الآية الآتية فى الكتاب المقدس ((( ايها الاباء لاتغيظوا ابناءكم)))) ستقف ضدة وضد ضميره

عاطف المصرى

From : M_123
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 2:44 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject :
القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس

Really I couldn’t have enough word to describe who betrayed our Coptic case.

This is kinds of group’s behaviors along the past 1400 year. That put all Coptic in the current situation.

We will ask and pray to God to clean our congregation from that evil behavior.

God keep our Pop and guide him to the salvation of Coptic nation.

God bless you all

From : Milad Henin 
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 5:00 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject
: القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس

تعليقى اننى اشكر قدس ابونا متياس وكل انسان ساعدة على استدعاء البوليس داخل الكنيسة لكى يعرف العالم كلة ان مشاعر الاقباط ليست للنفاق ولا للمرائين
ويجب على شعب كنيسة الانبا انطونيوس ان يرجع ابانا القمص متياس كى يعيش فى مصر كى يرى ويحس وتكون يدة فى النار لانة موجود فى امريكا ولا يحس بما يعانية الاقباط اولادة فى مصر-لانة اذ لم يحس الراعى برعيتة فلا يستحق ان يرعاها-فالافضل لة ان يذهب ويرعى رعية اخٌرى فى مصر وقتها عندما يعانى مثل اى اب كاهن موجود فى مصر من بطش وارهاب الحكومة الوهابية وعلى رأسها راعى الارهاب حسنى مبارك سوف يذهب الى اب اعترافة ويعترف بهذة الخطية لكى يقبلها السيد المسيح ويغفرها لة
وعلية اذا وقف احد المقبوض عليهم واثناء القداس وقبل قانون الايمان يقول الكاهن )اخطأط سامحونى) اذا قال لة لم اسامحك بصوت عالى لايقدر ان يكمل القداس وياتى كاهن اخر يكملة ويعتبر هذا الكاهن موقوف حتى يسامحة هذا الشخص
توقيع
متهم ببناء كنيسة

From :
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 10:18 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject
: القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس

الرجاء تحويل هذا الموضوع الي سيدنا البابا شنودة حتي لايتكرر مثل ذلك مرة ثانية ولا يصح ان يصدر من قدس ابونا مثل ذلك في مثل هذة المناسبة المباركة
ولايصح ان يدخل البوليس الكنيسة وكان يجب علي قدس ابونا ان ياخذ في الاعتبار مشاعر شعبه بل مشاعر الشعب القبطي في كل المسكونة لانه اب لكل الاقباط
قدس ابونا الناس كلها تعبانه واذا اباء اتخذوا بالفعل قرار عدم استقبال سفراء مصر فلماذا يقوم اخر من اباء بعكس ذلك المفروض ان يكون القرار واحد حتي نكون مصدر قوة في القرارات التي يتم اتخذها في مثل ذلك الظروف ونكون مصدر قوة في حياتنا
قدس ابونا سامحنى علي ذلك ويجب علي قدسك ان تاخذ بخاطر شعبك الذى يحبك
ابنك
المحتاج الي صلواتك
عادل صليب
امستردام - هولندا

From : Linda Nakhla, DDS
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 11:33 PM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس


I wonder why the Egyptian government is making such a big fuss over the blasts in Dahab. It probably is some "emotionally disturbed" individuals. Or are they only considered emotionally disturbed when they attack the defenseless copts but are considered fanatic terrorists when they attack defenseless tourists and locals. What a shame. On the events at St. Antonuis Church. I think that the fact that council was invited to come was very wrong and totally opposite to the sentiments of our Mother Church leaders, and also against the decision of all the other area priests. I also feel that a protest is right and justified to carry to the government representative our anger and hurt feelings. But I really do not agree that the protest would happen during our Holy Liturgy. Our Liturgy is so sacred and should be kept as such.. The protest should have happened outside in the parking lot while the council was going in or out of church but never inside the church.. Those people do not understand the holiness of our churches and our sacraments but we do and we should.

Dr. Linda Nakhla

From : sam khalil
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 8:37 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : القمص متياس يسلم شعبه للبوليس


plese whrite every thing about this preste because i hear this is a businse man and much more

From : Maged Armanuse
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 5:08 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : Please Read

What is posted on the American Coptic site about Father Matthias is totally
false and not fair, I was there along with my wife during the incident.

There were only about 2 or 3 people who started yelling during El Zafa right
after the resurection through the bible reading. They pushed several deacons
to get through and I am sure that the majority of the church agree that the
church is not the time and the place to do these kind of things.

More over Abouna Ashia said a strong message to the Consul regarding the
Alexandera incident.

Let me ask you this, if the situttion got out of control and they got hurt,
who would be held responsible? It would fall on Hayward Church and its
members, not the American coptic orginzation - therefore it could make
things worse for our fellow Copts in Egypt. Therefore what you said on the
web site is not fair fo abouna or the congeration.

Let us be foucs on our goals and not attack each other for any reason!!!!

One last thing, the only out-come from this incident inside the church,
ABSOULTLY NOTHING !

From : <sallieu@ucla.edu>
Reply-To : sallieu@ucla.edu
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 6:03 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : RE: one of your article on St. Antonious Coptic Orthodox Church
| | | FR_Mathhia... | Inbox

Dear amcoptic.com,
I am a member of St. Antonious Coptic Orthodox Church. Abouna Matthias
is my priest, and has been my priest for about 15 years now. I have
something I need to say to you and I hope you are willing to hear it.
The articles you wrote regarding our church and Abouna Matthias and what
happened yesterday is
false and distorted. I was a person who witnessed what occured yesterday
FIRST HAND and I believe as a COPTIC PUBLICATION it is YOUR RESPONSIBLITY
to tell the TRUTH.

For your information, (and everyone who was there WITNESSED IT and will
agree with me), Abouna Matthias had NOTHING to do with the police coming.
The first thing I wanted to correct you on is the fact that the five men
who started the riots in our church were NOT arrested, like you
portrayed, but were detained in order for them to calm down by the
police, since they posed a huge threat to our congregation, and the
reason the police were called in the first place, a decision that was
made by the
BOARD of the church and not Abouna, was when the protestors decided to
ATTACK OUR DEACONS and hit them.

You can't expect to break the law and hurt your OWN people that you are
so called "defending and trying to protect" and then not expect to get in
trouble for your actions. I don't care who you are. What they did was
STUPID. PERIOD. If your purpose is to fight against the injustice
against your coptic brothers and sisters but at the same time are HITTING
THE DEACONS in the church as FAYEZ was doing, then you're purpose is
absolutely contradictory. You're no better than the MUSLIMS THEMSELVES.
I SAW HIM HITTING THE DEACONS WITH MY OWN EYES, same with the other
"important" guy from France.

More importantly, the fact that the Egyptian Consolate came was a decison
that was made,
ONCE AGAIN BY THE BOARD, because if you knew ANYTHING about diplomacy,
and even futher, Christianity, you would know that that was the RIGHT
THING TO DO. To make my point even further, Fayez hit a deacon, doesn't
mean that I'm going to think all protestors are as violent and as
contradictory to their causes such as him, so the same should apply to
the consulate general, you can't judge him, that is not who we are as
Christians, otherwise we are JUST as bad as the Muslims.

DON'T GET ME WRONG AND TRY TO TWIST WHAT I AM SAYING: if people want to
protest, please by all means go ahead, but to do so in the MIDDLE OF THE
LITURGY when the BODY AND BLOOD of our SAVIOR is right infront of us, and
futhermore ATTACKING OUR OWN DEACONS is UNCALLED FOR AND RIDICULOUS. To
tell you the truth, this looks almost identical to what happened in
Alexandria, minus the swords, and actually it's even own worse because
OUR OWN PEOPLE DISTURBED OUR PEACE DURING THE HOLIEST TIME OF THE YEAR.

Your article is not even close to being true, and I would suggest not lying or taking information from people who are known to not tell the truth or twist things, but rather come and INVESTIGATE before you write things that are false and HARMFUL. If you have something against Abouna Matthias, that's your problem, but don't make him and our church seem like we have connections to the government when you very well know that is not the truth. There were at least 300 people that were there that saw what happened and NOT ONE of them agreed with what went on yesterday, even those who are not close to Abouna.

Furthermore, about your article's inaccuracy: FIVE GUYS not the CONGREGATION were detained, NOT ARRESTED. FURTHERMORE I WOULD SUGGEST not trying to tie Abouna Matthias, who FOR YOUR INFORMATION, told the police to let the people go, and had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONSOLATE BEING THERE AND THE MEN BEING ESCORTED OUT BY THE POLICE. I mean there is a time and a place for everything to happen and to go and accuse Abouna and our church for having secret ties to the Egyptian government is RIDICULOUS. THAT IS A CHEAP SHOT WHICH IS UNTRUE AND UNCHRISTIAN, at least be a little more believable than that.

And since your such a profound publication, you should forward the following to those who were protesting: I would suggest that those who disturbed our liturgy really think about what they thought they were going to accomplish. As soon as they left, the entire church was filled
with peace which PROVES that no one even CARED about what they were doing, or their purpose. At the moment of the disturbances, people lost their peace, but as soon as the protestors left, they were fine, which brings me to the point that their purpose was done in VAIN and nothing got accomplished but rather they, the protestors, looked STUPID. I
suggest they think about the fact that NO ONE in our congregation came CLOSE to even AGREEING with their purpose and their goal that night.
They fought a battle for a church they don't even attend, so that makes me ask, did they really come to fight in the name of the Copts that are being persecuted or are they fighting for their own selfish reasons to try and get Abouna in trouble?

PLEASE DO ME A FAVOR AND FORWARD OR EVEN PUBLISH THIS IN YOUR RIDICULOUS WEBSITE WHO I HAVE ONCE LOOKED UP TO IN ADMIRATION AND NOW HAVE LOST ALL RESPECT FOR.

In Christ's Name,
Sally Youssef

"If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." 1John 1:6

From : Boshra Rizkalla
Sent : Monday, April 24, 2006 10:24 AM
To : amcoptic@hotmail.com
Subject : Arrest of protester Copt in SF

Shame...! Shame....!, But, when you know  that his head of the Coptic Church has received and welcomed Moslem Government representatives in the Cairo Cathedral and also next day in his official residence with Sheikh of Azhar, it becomes obvious that the church cannot follow the Coptic civil movement policies.They are obliged to follow the Bible teachings that will most of the time will conflict with active civil rights decisions. Thus, the only solution to this controversy is to elect leader to a Christian Copts Civil Rights Organization " CCCRO" whose policies should be with total separation between church and the movement.

As for Father Mathias of SF, I would not put too much value on his action. Even though 2 innocent worshippers got arrested, I trust it was all done according to our American law standard of honoring the sanctity of the church and the dignity of the apprehended persons. In all probability they would be set free by a judge by now. 

So the bottom line is: Separation of church and state.

Thank you and keep on doing the good work of bringing the American Christian Copts news and views to the world.

American Copt,

Boshra Rizkalla